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Genuine Criticism is not Bigotry by victauron Genuine Criticism is not Bigotry by victauron
I have frequently seen many people when they come upon genuine criticism of the religion of Islam, associate it with bigotry and prejudice against Muslim individuals.  This association is a major misconception.  Muslims are the followers of the religion of Islam, while Islam itself is a set of doctrines and beliefs that govern the lifestyles of its followers.  

While genuine bigotry against Muslims because of their religion and identity exists, criticism of a people's set of beliefs and prejudice against said people are entirely different. 

Criticizing Islam is examining the core values, ideals and beliefs of the religion, critiquing the religion's scripture, and examining the doctrines that inspire various cultural practices.  
Promoting bigotry against Muslims on the other hand, is judging every single Muslim worldwide to be terrorists, encouraging violence against Muslims solely because of religion, believing that all Muslims should be expelled from a country, believing Muslims should be barred from entering a country solely because of identity, excluding Muslims from positions because of identity, believing that they should be constantly monitored on the slight suspicion that they might be associated with terrorists without concrete evidence, and generally encouraging discrimination against Muslims.  

The religion of Islam itself has various questionable verses in its scripture and questionable doctrines.  From the way various verses are phrased, they can be interpreted as being misogynistic, endorsing violence against disbelievers, encouraging homophobia, and promoting slavery.   Islam is no immune to criticism and scrutiny like any other set of beliefs.  Generally, this in itself can also be applied to any religion whenever religious scripture is used to justify barbaric cultural practices, and atrocities, it does warrant scrutiny into the religion's doctrines.  In spite of certain questionable doctrines, not every Muslim fully observes every one of these verses and Islamic traditions can vary from country to country. 

A religion's followers and a religion's doctrines and teachings are not entirely synonymous.  A religion's followers, like Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc. are individual people who observe and follow a religion's doctrines while a religion itself is an system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship an deity.  Individuals can leave behind their religion, to become atheists or join another religion. 

No matter how seemingly peaceful or altruistic a religion can profess to be, such as Jainism or Buddhism, there always is some flaws within the beliefs of the religion.  There is no religion, ideology, or any set of beliefs that is ever immune or exempt to criticism.

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:iconaim3rgam3r1:
AIM3RGAM3R1 Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2017
It's funny when I criticize Christianity and Judaism, nobody bats an eye but the second I move on to Islam, it's like the entire left turns against me and say I'm nothing more racist right-winger. I have been criticizing the right-wing all my life and they have the audacity to call me a bigot for condemning the crimes against humanity that are committed by the Muslim world. they even accused me of wanting a genocide on the Muslim people, how fucking ridiculous can the SJW's get?
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:icontultsi93:
tultsi93 Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2017  Hobbyist Artist
Go to tell this to SJWs.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's a message many on the politically correct left need to understand. Especially that trying to silence criticism of beliefs that could be harmful or have questionable characteristics can be dangerous to the victims of said beliefs.  
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Flagged as Spam
:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
And how is this relevant with this stamp? 
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:iconnumb-skullz:
NUMB-SKULLZ Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017
Islam is sexist garbage TBH 
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:iconagnosticdragon:
agnosticdragon Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
I think bigotry has to do with false generalizations about groups of people. Muslims are a pretty diverse group, so most negative generalizations about them do not hold up. But what if someone hates a group because of beliefs about that group that are accurate? What if all Muslims supported executing gay people? I think that would largely negate anti-discrimination arguments. It is not discrimination to treat people differently because they are dangerous. What if most Muslims supported executing gay people? That one would be a bit trickier, but I think at some point the generalization becomes reasonable.
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:iconspyrotailz:
SpyroTailz Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
well over half of all muslims support executing gay people and similar acts (support, not do it themselves)
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:iconagnosticdragon:
agnosticdragon Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
I have seen polls like that and I do not know what to make of them. Polls are not always reliable. Sometimes people tell pollsters what they think the pollsters want to hear, or what they think makes them look good. People living in highly religious societies typically claim to be more devout than they are. Ask Muslims what they think of alcohol. Nearly all of them will say they are against drinking alcohol, because the Quran expressly forbids it. Some of them drink anyway. So I would view with some suspicion what people say they believe, especially where there are incentives for them to misrepresent their beliefs. Also, poll questions do not measure intensity of belief, and this matters. A person may hold a radical belief but not be willing to do much about it.
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:iconspyrotailz:
SpyroTailz Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah, polls and surveys is where i got it from... might not be the absolute truth as you said but still
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:iconlegendofspyrothedrag:
legendofspyrothedrag Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2017
"[....], and promoting slavery."

Wait, how does this work? Last I checked Islam actually eliminate slavery by making people who make "big" Sins (for the lack of a better word) buy a slave then free him/her/them.

Also, the first who have ever said the Athan (the chanting before every Prayer) was blank. Not even the Prophet himself have done such a thing before the man who recited the Chant.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Edited Jan 3, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've heard there are verses in the Quran that seem to condone slavery, looting, and having sex with slaves.  Even during Muhammad's time, he and his followers did take some slaves.  Some verses like (33:50), (4:24) (23:5-6) seem eyebrow-raising in this regard.

However, while some parts of Islamic doctrine seem morally questionable, not every Muslim follows their books completely and literally nor are they violent barbarians.  Nor do they support slavery as per the above example.  A religion's scripture and its followers aren't synonymous with one another. 
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:iconlegendofspyrothedrag:
legendofspyrothedrag Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2017
Nope, "real" slavery (like what it used to exist way back during the >18th century) isn't allowed in Islam - infact it eliminates such a thing by making people [back when slavery was a thing] buy and free a slave of both genders as a way to compensate for a Sin. Not sure about the other types though, but then again all the Holy Abrahamic Religions started when everything back then was the "newest stuff".
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:icondabair:
DaBair Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree.

Even atheism and agnosticism aren't immune to criticism.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nothing should be free from scrutiny.  Placing any idea on a pedestal and affirming it as "sacred" or "untouchable" doesn't always have good turnouts. 
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:icononlythefact:
OnlyTheFact Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2016  Student Writer
I agree.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Criticism against an idea and bigotry against its followers are indeed two entirely different things.
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:iconcyberthehedgehog270:
CyberTheHedgehog270 Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2016
You forget, it is bigotry, racism and so on if you don't fall lockstep with what the Government says.

How dare you be a free thinker! Bow before the fascist leaders! They obviously know more then us tiny pawns will ever know!
(End sarcasm)
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:iconseiden-kaczka:
Seiden-Kaczka Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2016
Totally true. Like, I can criticise my country's politics, it does not mean I hate people from my country.
The same way, I can criticise some points of Islam that should seriously be changed.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Some people can be so blinded by identity politics that they can't differentiate between genuine criticism of a group's more questionable actions or worldviews versues genuine prejudice and generalization of every member of said group is an unpleasant violent individual.  One can critique and criticize a group's actions without resorting to vitriolic bigotry against all of them. 

Nuance is quite an important thing.
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:iconwingdiamond:
WingDiamond Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes indeed!  And the opposite is even more true. 
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:iconakyura44:
Akyura44 Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016  Student General Artist
Exactly. Just... exactly.

:iconfreeinternetplz:
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:iconmariscalrudolf:
MariscalRudolf Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016
I've never found something so correct and honest. Seriously, it's hard to find people making actual criticism over religions, usually they just pick up specific movements/persons and don't analyse historical/social conditions to explain the uprising of such individuals and movements, they just put the blame totally on religion(ignoring the fact that religions don't develop equally everywhere in the globe and history), but never make analysis of the sacred texts and manuscripts in order to analyse the religion itself.
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:icondarkvikingmistress:
DarkVikingMistress Featured By Owner Edited Dec 12, 2016  Student Writer
Thing is though...moderate Muslims are far more conservative minded when it comes to civil rights and liberal societies than moderate Christians.

Moderate Christians are often centre right, or civil neutral libertarians, and also centre left, with a few but not too many going further than being liberals but not many, as it has been proven that religion can generally prevent you from holding extreme left wing stances.

Moderate Muslims, however, are often still firmly on the right and often believe still in archaic procedures for society including LGBT, race, crime and punishment, justice, women's modesty and sexual expression. There's also a disturbing tendency that many of them support what radicals do, they just wouldn't directly involve themselves in it.

I don't want to be the thought police or anything and of course you should leave them alone if they do no harm. But, I often see this moderate muslims are A ok line being trotted out by people...with Muslims it is much complicated than it is with Christians, because the majority of practicing Muslims are more extreme and faithful believers these days than Christians across the board. It is not as simple as that, in short. There is an issue with most of Islam which really needs to be addressed.

Christian fundie numbers are also dropping to the floor as we speak, but everyday thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of new Muslims are being converted, and fundamentalist Islam are the real new fundies. They've probably taken over fundie Christians in numbers well by now.
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:icontheartfrog:
TheArtFrog Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2016  Student General Artist
True. It's a complex issue.
Muslims (moderates) are fine in my opinion so long as they don't try to control the lives of others with their restrictive beliefs. 
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:iconlachassegalerie:
LaChasseGalerie Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016
taqiya comment.
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:icontheartfrog:
TheArtFrog Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016  Student General Artist
I'm not even Muslim nor do I not lie for them. I spoke only the truth in my comment.
I do hate how taqiya is part of their scripture though. That's a pretty screwed up religious teaching...

Anyhow, I'm saying that people should be able criticise any ideology, and that includes Islam. I'm not defending Islam, I think it's a horrible ideology, but I think that we shouldn't persecute moderate innocent Muslims who've done nothing wrong.
The extremists need to be stopped one way or another, but we shouldn't destroy our basic human rights for the sake of security either, otherwise the extremists have achieved the terror they sought to incite.
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:icongraeystone:
Graeystone Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016
Actually the Christian Reformation was about getting Church Leaders to stop acting like damned(literal!) Pharisees. Any acts of moderation and peace was from getting Church Leaders to start acting like Men of God instead of Men of Politics.
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:iconcrimsonfalke:
CrimsonFALKE Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Now mind you this is a guy who attacks Christians regularly and then blocks them when they get the upper hand in the attack.
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:icontheartfrog:
TheArtFrog Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016  Student General Artist
True, but I was rather refering to the fact that Christianity has for the most part reformed, not the Reformation itself! ^^; I'm not good with words sometimes...
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:icongraeystone:
Graeystone Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016
It came down to people who were mucking things up for the Church and the Believers. These forgot/ignored/didn't care what Jesus wanted or taught as long as they held onto their power.
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:icondportzegerman:
You know, I don't understand why people say „terrorism follows no religion“ on the topic of Islamic Terrorism. Really? That's like saying „racism doesn't apply to one single race“.
Fucking imbeciles.
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:iconvictauron:
victauron Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Saying "terrorism has no religion" is a major fallacy.  While some Jihadists can be motivated more by political reasons or other reasons, religious scripture is still used as a justification for their actions.  

Even if some jihadists were not previously practicing Muslims, they were still motivated by a politicised religious ideology and had justification from verses in Islamic scripture, regardless of its meaning.  Whether said verse meant something else, religion still motivated or had a role in motivating these violent people. 
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:icondportzegerman:
DPortZeGerman Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016
That's literally what I just said mate.
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:iconschwarzer--ritter:
Schwarzer--Ritter Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016  Student Traditional Artist
So terrorism does follow religion?
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:icongraeystone:
Graeystone Featured By Owner Edited Aug 16, 2016
It comes down the goal of the terrorists. Take Che Guevara for example. He was a terrorist and his motives was not about religion. Also the KKK while they made the claim to Christianity, terrorized/murdered blacks, Republicans, anyone else who disagreed with them which had noting to do with religion or Christianity.
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:icondportzegerman:
DPortZeGerman Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2016
Not all acts of terrorism are inspired by religion, but saying religion cannot be used as a motive for terrorism is completely idiotic. If you commit an act of Terrorism in the name of [Insert Religion here], then you're a religious terrorist. If you go out and kill 20 schoolgirls in the name of Islam, you're a fucking Islamic Terrorist. If you blow up a Gay bar in the name of Jesus Christ, you're a Christian Terrorist. Liberals like to say „Islamic Terrorists are not muslims...“ Sure they aren't. They just believe everything Muslims believe but use that as a justification to kill. Anything can be used as a motive to commit horrible acts. Religion is just one that's a lot more likely. Some people probably remember thatGas attack ath that Furry Convention. Even though it's not cool to assume all people who follow [Insert Religion here] due to acts of terrorism inspired by that faith, still saying that Faith cannot inspire those acts is idiotic.

TL;DR: Yes.
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:iconschwarzer--ritter:
Schwarzer--Ritter Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016  Student Traditional Artist
Does "terrorism follows no religion" mean exactly the same thing as "religion cannot be used as a motive for terrorism"?
What Christian terrorist has blown up a gay bar?
Has the Furry Convention terrorist been caught? If not, how do you know he did it for religious reasons?
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:icondportzegerman:
DPortZeGerman Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016
1. Does "terrorism follows no religion" mean exactly the same thing as "religion cannot be used as a motive for terrorism"?
Yes. Religion CAN and IS used as a motive for violent crimes and terrorism. ANY faith can be used as a motive. Religion is not the only motive, they can also be politically or socially based, but Religion is a common pick due to contradictions with law. If I go out and assault a Gay person, I can claim Freedom of Religion and [definitely if I was an American] legally justify my actions. But if you go out and assault a woman, not because I believe God says women are beneath men (which fun fact, ALL abrahamic religions are male-dominate and promote discrimination/violence against women; Bible 1 Timothy 2:11-12 / Torah Leviticus 15:19-30 / Koran 4 Surat L´nisaa 4:34), but if I claim 
„I poked shit at her just because I don't like her“, then only me is at fault. Gods are only a tool used by people to justify actions.

2. What Christian terrorist has blown up a gay bar?
You are very ignorant, my friend. There's literally a 
Wikipedia Page on Christian Terrorism. And all it takes is 2 seconds to search, with all the wisdom of the internet, to find a story on a Christian Terrorist that has caused a massacre at a Gay bar, let alone 25, or on the same motives but any given target.

3. 
Has the Furry Convention terrorist been caught? If not, how do you know he did it for religious reasons?
The suspect has not been identified, but you missed my point. Like I've said, Religion IS a motive for violent crime usually, but not always. I was not claiming he committed that crime for religious reasons, because he did not commit that crime for Religious reasons. He did it out of pure hatred and social subculture intolerance. I was giving an example on an event that was not religiously inspired, to futhermore prove my point; that you clearly missed. C'mon, you and I like MLP; we've had our fair share of hate from the general community. The people chanting „kill all furfags“ aren't doing so because it says so in the Bible. Religion was NOT a motive in this case, but saying Religion cannot be a motive in ANY case; is, simply put, wrong. 

Habe ich mich klar gemacht?
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:iconschwarzer--ritter:
Schwarzer--Ritter Featured By Owner Aug 17, 2016  Student Traditional Artist
Isn't that kind of the argumentation behind violent video games? The guy who assaulted an homosexual is a Christian, so he did it because of Christianity; the kid who shot up his school played a lot of videogames, so he did it because of videogames?
But if terrorism does follow religion, wouldn't there be millions of terrorists in the USA alone?

I am still not sure what the point of the furry example is. If the terrorist was proven to be religious, he was motivated by religion, if he was not religious, he was motivated by hatred?
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:iconthe-max765:
The-Max765 Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Generically speaking, all hate crimes are a product of... well, hatred, but the hatred isn't ALWAYS religious in nature. That being said, though, religious hatred is a major source of hate crimes. Just not ALL of them.
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:iconschwarzer--ritter:
Schwarzer--Ritter Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2017  Student Traditional Artist
How many?
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(1 Reply)
:icondportzegerman:
DPortZeGerman Featured By Owner Aug 17, 2016
...mad : I Okay, I give up.
There's no hope for you mate. Aus wiedersehen.
Reply
:iconsulaimandoodle:
SulaimanDoodle Featured By Owner Edited Aug 15, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I don't think any ideology should be above scrutiny.

Scrutiny allows the might of an idea to be tested, to see if it really holds water.

If someone says something you don't agree with, ignore em, or try and engage with them in peaceful discourse.

Without the fresh flow of ideas a pool can grow stagnant.    
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:icondawrecka:
DaWrecka Featured By Owner Oct 23, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Allow me to belatedly throw my hat in this ring by saying I am in this very camp.

And frankly, while those who rely on ad hominem attacks need to be slapped until they're no longer stupid, (might take a while. I'll volunteer for the first shift!) if your first reaction to legitimate criticism is to cry "HERESY!", then you are the sort of bottom-feeding lifeform who brings down the rest of the human race.

And this applies whether you worship Allah, Christ, Yahweh, Buddha, Odin, Ra, Zeus, Amaterasu, Kāne, or who-the-****-ever. Either accept your criticism like a civilised human being, or kill yourself. You're taking oxygen away from those more deserving.
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:iconsulaimandoodle:
SulaimanDoodle Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Are you ex-muslim or ex-religious also?
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:icondawrecka:
DaWrecka Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ex-Catholic, why?
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:iconsulaimandoodle:
SulaimanDoodle Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Ah just curious :) I tried Catholicism, then Islam.
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:icongraeystone:
Graeystone Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2016
Ah, but who scrutinizes the scrutinizer.
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